Hosting and Participating In Swaps/Updated

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pbp908
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Hosting and Participating In Swaps/Updated

Post by pbp908 »

There are a lot of swaps posted, and as a participant and as a hostess there are sometimes situations that occur. I've been burned as a hostess and as a participant. There are many reasons these things happen, a lot of them legitimate. As a partipant - You forgot you were in a swap or your creative mojo just isn't working. Your creations were eaten by the post office in transit. You misunderstood the directions. Family emergencies and life had to take precedence. As a hostess - You haven't received everyone's artwork in spite of emailing and PMing. You're late swapping out and you've been promised they're on their way.

I'd really like everyone's input on this. When I hosted the Summer LFB one participant promised faithfully that her pages were on the way, so I delayed swapping. Finally I swapped out using the extra pages that had been sent to me and the ones that were my group - many that I didn't want to let go of. (They were gorgeous!) This person promised me in numerous emails that they were being mailed and then refused to answer my emails after two weeks of waiting. She then ended up participating in the Fall LFB swap, which really hacked me off. All I could do was warn the hostess what my experience had been with her. I think that if you elect to participate in a swap, you should follow through or not sign up. Swaps are voluntary and are supposed to be fun, not stressful for either the participants or the hostess.

My question - How should it be handled? What do we do? How do we respond? How long should we wait before replacing someone? I'd love suggestions and discussion on both sides of the question, participant and hostess.

Pam
Pam P.
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http://www.pamsmeanderingthoughts.blogspot.com
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pbp908
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Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by pbp908 »

I really would like feedback on this before I host another swap. There are things that I think would be fun for swaps, but I don't know if I want to leave myself (or anyone else, for that matter) dangling in mid-air without forum support and input. If you want to be anonymous, I can create a poll, but what would I put on it? A. Throw the bums out? B. Fix it yourself? C. Don't host swaps unless you agree to hassles? D. Don't participate unless you sign in blood that you can fulfill your commitment?

Sigh. Maybe everyone is mulling over their responses.

Pam
Pam P.
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Cathy

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by Cathy »

I would be interested in what everyone else thinks as well. It's a tough position to be in as a hostess when the participants don't follow the deadlines.

I was waiting on today's mail before I answered this post. But it hasn't come yet, and I don't want you to be left hanging solo with this thread Pam.

I understand that life happens. Been there and done that. All I ask is for the participants to let me know what is going on so I can pass the information along to the other participants who are trying to be patient for their swaps.

The Christmas ATC swap was the first swap I've hosted through Club Scrap. I have four different groups being held up right now. The deadline was December 1st. That is pretty close to 2 weeks ago. My late participants have assured me that they've mailed their atc's. But they should have been here by now since they told me that.

I'm not sure what to do about it either Pam. If I send out the swaps now, then when the late entries come I will either have to pay postage myself and send them out to everyone who I have already sent to; or do I just send the atc's back and say it's too late? But of course that would would not work since this swap is the Christmas Letter swap and we need ALL the letters to complete the page! :(

And another problem is that I adore my late participants - so I don't want to hurt their feelings by being mean!

Tough position being the hostess.

Cathy:)
Cathy

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by Cathy »

DH just brought in the mail - nothing for me:(
ChristyB

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by ChristyB »

There is never going to be a perfect system for swaps. There will always be flakers and bad hosts (sadly). It would be nice to implement some sort of system in moderating such things. I think just about all of us who have both hosted and participated in swaps have been burned one time or another.
I have no problems with people dropping my swaps, I understand the whole life thing. But I do like communication from my players, and as a hostess feel it is my duty to keep you up to date on status.

While we have no system currently in place to monitor this I would like to give strong encouragement to those who sign up for swaps
-AS A PLAYER
-Seriously think if you can do the requirements in the alloted time
Communicate with the hostess
It's nice to want to play in all the really great swaps going on here but if you can't DON"T SIGN UP, or Drop with notice to the hostess-let her
find someone to take your spot. Live Vicariously through what others post and play next time around.

AS A HOSTESS
-be very clear about what you expect. More detail is better than less.
-Communicate with your players-let them know what is going on.
-Mail back in a timely manner-it's nice once everyone gets them to you to turn around and get them back out soon (don't schedule a due
date when you know something big is going to happen -ie a swap on another site the girl scheduled the due date for the day her baby
was to be born UM hello--guarentee you won't be swapping)


It all boils down to consideration
Hopefully until a better system can maybe put into place we can all show a little extra PAO love :D
cnedaria

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by cnedaria »

It's a sad fact of life that sometimes people are flaky and sometimes people are just jerks.

I think that all of us understand that, and in cases where one person drops out of a swap, I don't think that YOU should be responsible to make up their part.

It's a measure of how good a person YOU are, and how much you care about the swap you ran that you inconvenienced yourself for the good of the group.

You rock!

But I totally think you're in your rights not to allow people who flake like that to participate in future swaps without MAJOR assurances. Kinda like requiring people to post a deposit after their utitily check bounces, ya know?

And if they don't communicate with you, then I think you have every right to bounce them and/or not allow them to participate in the future.

Big hugs!
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tlscrap
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Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by tlscrap »

It's all about communication, the swaps that I've been involved in have been really good so far, I have no complaints. I have heard nightmares though.

People really need to communicate, life does sometimes get in the way and people have to drop out. But, as long as they give a GOOD notice, not like the day before, ok.

COMMUNICATION!
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Theresa Lee
Painesville, Ohio
Holly

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by Holly »

Pam post reply is now showing here-- but I pmed you so I won't repeat it here
Ruth Ann Landry

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by Ruth Ann Landry »

amen....don't know the answer either, but for some swaps, it's not such a huge problem...a lot of the atc and tag swaps are done by "luanne's dealing method" and do not require a set number of participants so noone loses...however, for those swaps, like my tin can shrine swap, for example, the swap is one on one and depends on full participation or someone gets royally screwed......
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pbp908
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Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by pbp908 »

I apologize - I had posted this in the wrong area and Christy was kind enough to repost it so there was a "reply" option. It drove me crazy because I could see the "Reply" but nobody else could! :oops: I couldn't figure out why I was hanging out here alone since I know that everyone in this group has an opinion on everything, and that's why I love you all.

Do we need to have more strict guidelines? I felt so bad about holding my swap while waiting, and thankfully almost everyone said that they didn't care if they didn't get one of their own pages back - that made swapping a lot easier. How long should we wait before replacing someone? I didn't mind at all replacing someone in Cathy's swap because there was a real emergency. I think that if there are problems then people would be more than happy to step up if they know what's going on. But how long before you post that there's an opening? Cathy's current swap is now two weeks late - there's no way that Lanita could get another set here from Germany. So what's the answer? Suggestions?

Pam
Pam P.
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tichwoli

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by tichwoli »

As a host and player in a lot of swaps I fully understand your concerns. I have been totally brutal with flakers for a while now if their packages arrive too late I just put return to sender on the unopened envelope and send the package back. At the same time I email the miscreant and let her know that it is not acceptable to be late.

One of the key issues here is communications - I try to update on the swaps I host regularly to let everyone know what is going on and it just basic manners as a player to let the hostess know what is going on. I had to back out of Ruth Ann's altered tin can swap and emailed immediately that i knew I could not make the deadline. She was very gracious and we did manage to have someone fill my spot. I know that that is just one incident but I am hosting several swaps where players do not communicate at all and have not communicated even though they seemed really enthused at the point of signing up. I do keep a "blacklist" now as well.

This is one of the reasons I have not suggested a new swap on this board - I do not want to be forever chasing up people on their commitments.

On the opposite side of the coin, there are some really wonderful people who regularly swap and stay in communication with the host which makes things special.

Not much help to you but do feel free to pm me with any questions you have.
Sharonv

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by Sharonv »

I know I have loved every swap I have been in. Some I have had to drop because of life etc and I let the hostess know why. Currently I am not joining any swaps because I cannot commit to getting them done. Once life moves on and gets a bit more predictable I will start again. Meantime I love seeing everyone's work.

However I have been a terrible hostess. The Fabric ATC's are still not sorted and sent because of Life and the fact I cannot even bring myself to make mine and I hosted!! Girls, I will get these out to you but it will be after Xmas, and I am very sorry.
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Paula
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Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by Paula »

I agree that it is just a matter of communication and thoughtfulness. I have joined many swaps, and I don't think I was late with one. The last two months I have not joined any, due to my constrained time schedule. I really really want to join. But it would not be fair if I knew I could not get them done on time. Hence, I watch and drool from the sidelines :tomato:

I think if there is someone who has stopped communicating, and refuses to even answer your email, they should be on a black list. And why not post the black list? I know I would be too embarrassed to be on that list.

On the other hand, life issues, lost mail, and late mail need to be excused. Maybe have a deadline, and swap 10 days later. Enough time to communicate to the late ones about the status?

Just some thoughts
Paula
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troublesmom
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Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by troublesmom »

Pam another group that I belong to the owner has swaps all the time. She does not extend the time at all. If your swap is not to her on the day it is due too bad. She does the swaps and if any packages arrive late they are returned unopened and the person who flaked is not allowed to join another swap for a certain period of time. No ifs, ands or buts. She still has those that flake but everyone knows how she handles it so there are no excuses. She knows life happens but people are waiting and she doesn't hold up the swap.
Cheryl
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donnak

Re: Hosting and Participating In Swaps

Post by donnak »

A few years ago, I was burned on swaps from the original Club Scrap Yahoo group. I sent off about 7 decos made with beautiful papers and only rec'd one back - my Coffee deco and my Night Sky deco (and others) never made it back home. I emailed the group, the hostesses and some of the participants but never got them back. I decided then that swap were not worth it and I quit swapping with that group. Don't ever send anything so precious to you that not getting it back would hurt so much.
I've hosted and swapped since I began paper arting and sometimes you get junk and sometimes you get works of art - but I've always learned alot from both experienced artists and newbies . . . most of the groups I'm in now have quite strict rules about hosting and participating.
For example:
1) You cannot host a swap until you have successfully participated in 3 separate swaps (different hostesses). . . that means "well made" (something you would want to receive) and sent "on time." If you cannot do this three times in a row, you are not permitted to host a swap and you are put on a "slow list."
2) When hosting a swap, you must communicate regularly with the participants (like we do here, posting little hints and photos of swap items). Usually this is done in private emails or PMs instead of a general thread.
3) If you must drop out, contact the hostess asap and let her know so she can arrange an angel if needed. Emergencies such as surgery, death in the family, etc. are excused always.
4) If you send swap items late, they will be sent back (except if there are several late ones and the group has agreed to wait - again, communication) using the postage you have sent with the package. If you still want to be a part of the swap, it is the late one's responsibility to send out individual swap items to each participant - when the hostess has been notified that all have been rec'd, and has rec'd adequate postage for returning to the late one, then she will send out the other swap items.
5) If you are late once, you are placed on a slow list and a hostess may ask the list moderator for this list. If you have been late twice or otherwise not fulfilled swap participation (determined by the hostess), the you will be banned from swapping on the list, but may still share ideas and comments and chatter.
6) When hosting, be very specific about what is required - example, how much postage; is the due date a hard date or can someone be a day or two late, do you need postage or cash or a check, etc.
These rules may seem rigid but remember that if all participants are communicating, then the hostess has the last say and many of these rules do not even phase participants. I just had to send an address list to a late participant, but also sent a message to the swap group and told them our expectations for the late one - she is to send items individually (2 week deadline for this) and email me and the other moderators when she sends the items out. This was a large swap - 12 items each and one person dropped due to a death in the family; we will be RAKing her the swap as agreed by all the participants. Communication is the key.
Just so you know, we have three moderators on this list, about 200 or so members and a couple of gals who sub-moderate when we are out of town. The moderators discuss problems and pose solutions just as you all are doing now. The rules we have are not perfect and some will not swap on this group because the rules "take away the fun of swapping" but I have to tell you that the quality of the items rec'd from these artists is always superb! Thanks for listening to me tonight!
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